J: Thank you Mr Hogan for taking the time to see me.
H: No problem.

J: Firstly, how big is your school?
H: It's actually quite small. All our tutors are freelance business owners, volunteers and casual contractors who drop by to teach a couple of hours a month. We operate more as an agent for the tutors rather than a staffed school.

J: So, is there anyone full time?
H: Just me. 80 hours a week minimum!

J: Have you thought about hiring someone full time to help you?
H: I have tried hiring the occasional contractor but the money spent on the work performed isn't covered by the amount of money coming in so it's best if I take on the admin side, then that cost does not affect the overall profitability of the business. The main thing is I run this as a non-profit business. Most of those 80 hours I volunteer my time anyway.

J: What does Adult English School actually do?
H: We're a private tutoring organisation. We occasionally run a short General English course but essentially we tutor people in cafes, our offices, at their homes and even in the pub. We're actually in a unique position as we provide a kind of service that no other language college does.

J: I don't want to be rude but it's not that unique. There are at least 30 other language colleges in Sydney providing private tuition and at least a 1000 private tutors working by themselves. What makes yours different?
H: True. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant we have unique services within the general industry. None of those places, people or organisations offer private tuition 8am to 9.30pm 7 days*, nor do they have almost instantaneous booking systems running from 7am to sometimes 2am, and they don't offer lessons fully tailored to the needs of the students. Most of the exercises we use for general English lessons are written by us so even the materials are unique. For example our one week general English course, taught by teachers in training, and featuring pronunciation and casual conversation exercises is only $88. I don't know anyone else offering something like that. Not even TAFE.

J: So your booking system is automated?
H: No, just me answering all emails as soon as they arrive on my pc or mobile. I'm answering emails when I wake up in the morning and when I'm going to bed at night. Many students work 2 jobs and aren't able to contact people during the day so if I get an enquiry via email at 2am I'm usually able to then reply straight away and schedule a tutor for them for the following day. How many tutors or businesses do you know that are run like that? That level of service in Sydney is unique.

J: So, basically, you don't have a life!
H: Haha. You could say that! But actually, Adult English School is my life.

J: Why are students so desperate to learn English? Surely they can get that anywhere. Why you? And I've seen your prices. $120 for 2 hours is a bit steep.
H: Yes, unfortunately it is all about the position. Renting our offices in the city is a combined cost of $3500 a month. It's where most of the money goes. The second most expensive part of that fee is the tutor fee. After that is admin. Not much left over after that so that's why we're non-profit. Having said that, prices for a one hour lesson with some of our competitors are $100 to $150 in the city so offering $120 for 2 hours is pretty good.

J: Have you thought of moving?
H: Yes, but it would have to be nearby. I'd prefer to run my business in the city centre and last time I tried to run the business from just a little bit further away, in Ultimo, there was a 75% drop in interest.

J: Okay. We got sidetracked there for a minute. So why do students contact you at 2am for a lesson?
H: There are a number of reasons but most of our students are between 23 and 28 so using the internet at 2am is quite common for this age group. They'll be working on an assignment and get stuck and suddenly decide they need a tutor to help them proofread their essay or help them understand some questions and need a lesson straight away. The other thing that a lot of people don't realise is that many students are doing English courses in classes with students who are from their own country. They don't get any chance to actually speak what they learn, only read and practice in their class. So they come to us to help fill in the gaps. We're gap fillers in that sense and we've helped students get through their studies from just about every other college, course and university related to English in Sydney. We've also helped a lot of medical students so a number of the tutors are pretty experienced with medical terminology now!

J: So your market is university students?
H: Actually our market changes month to month depending on the world environment. For example the year before last we had a lot of Russian students because buying property in Australia was popular for Russian investors. The year before that we had a lot of Japanese and Korean government officials wanting general conversation lessons because the opportunity was there and both governments offered to pay a percentage. Last year we helped a lot of people with their IELTS preparation as they knew the laws were going to change and were rushing to be able to apply for permanent residency before it got too hard. This year we've had an increase in people who've already got permanent residency now wanting help with getting a job. Resume writing, interview preparation etc. Also, English for business is becoming popular again.

J: I've got to ask. Economies of scale? Copiable system?
H: Haha. Almost non-existent. We have a set standard of lessons that we start general private English lessons and private IELTS lessons with but it's completely up to the student what they want or need and we usually find ourselves buying or borrowing text books or using Google or writing new materials from scratch to help that particular student. As we help people from all over the world we need to be flexible. No two students are the same so every lesson is really a new lesson requiring new materials. The means are also different. Just last week I was teaching IELTS to a doctor via online messaging in Mosul in Iraq and then a few days later continued lessons when he went to a conference in Istanbul, Turkey!

J: That sounds like a lot of preparation.
H: Yes, that's what I mainly do. Sales, scheduling and initial preparation to get the tutors started on the first lesson. Once they've had that first lesson they'll know the student better and take on much of the preparation from then.

J: I'm not sure about working 80 hours. You must have a passion for it.
H: You want to be a journalist, right? I'm guessing you'll end up working about 80 hours a week too! If you love it, it won't feel like work. That's the thing. But yes, in answer to your question, I do have a passion for this business. I've been tutoring privately for 10 years and running the school for over 5 so I'm unlikely to be quitting anytime soon!

J: How long would you say, roughly, it would take to learn a language.
H: That is a huge question. There is actually about 25 factors to take into account. I developed a formula for it. It's a bit complicated so I'll send you a link to it later.

J: Okay, I'm going to ask some general questions. What do you think of the changes to the immigration laws?
H: In the past few years we've struggled to help people who are studying cooking and hairdressing to improve their English. It's not really their fault but the industry they're in means that they have absolutely no time to study. They're usually too exhausted working and studying 6 to 7 days a week on their profession to think about adding English to the list. Also, as their ultimate goal is to get permanent residency and some of them have chosen an industry they don't like just to be able to move to Australia, this whole situation is probably a nightmare for them. By removing these from the list, they've actually been done a favour as now they can look for something a bit more suited to their abilities and maybe even have time to learn English. So, since the Occupational Skills List no longer includes hairdressers and chefs, these people no longer request lessons from us which means that we've had a drop in the number of students requesting general IELTS lessons, just in time to take on the increase in people wanting business English!

J: Did the GFC affect you?
H: There was a joke going around for awhile after the global financial crisis hit that the education industry is the only industry not affected by the crisis. It was affected by the crisis but it took an additional 12 months for it to filter through. We had a dramatic drop in numbers about a year later and the last part of 2009 was a disaster for us. We managed to hang on and are just getting back on our feet now but you would have read about other colleges and institutes in our industry going bankrupt. A bit of a nightmare for the industry in Australia.

J: Are you an accredited college?
H: There is a bit of confusion regarding accredited colleges but the only really accredited institutes are universities. Colleges aren't 'accredited' rather the courses they run are accredited courses and to run the accredited courses a college needs to have certain standard facilities. That's why you'll see some websites touting an accredited course but when you drill down you find that most courses listed are not accredited courses. They also need to pay a hefty fee every year to be able to keep running those year long courses. As we just do private tuition and the occasional short weekly course, we don't need to apply for accreditation or run accredited courses or spend thousands on certain facilities. This allows us to offer 2 hours of private tuition for $120 in the city while others around us are charging $100-$150 for just 1 hour . I recently saw a university English professor offering an hour of private tuition for $200. We would have to charge that amount if we went down the accreditation path. That's how we compete.

J: Do you think you'll go down the accreditation path?
H: I'm terrified just thinking about it. I'd have to hire a director of studies for $75,000 a year, then get facilities that include computer rooms, a kitchen, lockers, a certain amount of square meterage which would be about another $60,000, then get inspectors to inspect everything and pay a fee of about $10,000 every year then an application fee per course then a fee per student, then a couple of full time teachers, as well as a number of other financial considerations. I'd be looking at about $280,000 to get started. We only do about $70,000 a year non-profit. I can't see how I could suddenly quadruple and more to make that amount to get started.

J: You could get a loan, or maybe find an investor.
H: Not since the GFC. Not since a lot of colleges have collapsed.

J: Are you government supported? Any government grants?
H: No. Governments need set systems to be able to measure the quality of the courses and decide the right amount of funding. There are no real regular systems in private tuition. We have rules and regulations of course, to protect students, but as each lesson is individually tailored to the student the course they're doing in those lessons can't be quantified. It's especially true when some travellers just want general conversation practice so there is no structure, result or test and progress can't be measured. Not something you can give funding to.

J: Okay. Money definitely isn't the reason you're staying in the industry then. So, why?
H: Haha. Well, I'm a people person. I love meeting new people from around the world and if I can help them with their English and perhaps be one of the facilitators that help them start a new life in Australia then I'll be happy.

I'm sorry, I'm out of time. I've got to go and teach an Australian English course now.

J: Okay, thank you very much for your time, Mr Hogan. 
H: My pleasure.